Dwarf Fortress is coming to Steam and Itch

[tim]

Announcement:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/dwarf-fortress-25343688

Dwarf Fortress by Kitfox Games

They are adding an official tileset, and are supposedly fixing a lot of UI issues. I’ve donated before but I’ll totally buy this when it’s out.

[maiki]

Hey, I’m asking in general, and this is as good a place as any: does it annoy folks when I quip something is not free or open? Like, that is the first thing I check my brain for, ne? So it is really easy to always be the first one to post: yeah, but…

I’m not sure if that is a useful function, particularly with this group. I mean, you folks know how guilty each of you are.

I’ll be honest, I do this because I wish there were people who jumped in and called attention to these attributes. But I’m hoping I’m ever developing self-awareness, and want to get a room temperature reading.

[tim]

@maiki

oes it annoy folks when I quip something is not free or open?

It does not annoy me.

[maiki]

Yeah, but that could be Stockholm Syndrome.

[trashHeap]

@maiki

does it annoy folks when I quip something is not free or open?

My personal take on this, is to label proprietary things as such when I talk about them but to otherwise treat the question on whether or not to use them as a personal choice.

For me labeling the proprietary software as such is important, so that people can be informed before they choose. Though it also usually doesn’t bother me when other people don’t follow the same protocol.

TLDR: Using the term proprietary when you talk about such things is probably equivalent to a surgeon genera’s style warning, which I think is a good idea; but even if people don’t it’s nothing im not used to.

@maiki

I do this because I wish there were people who jumped in and called attention to these attributes.

I kinda thought about it, but a lot of people who know me and engage with gaming conversations face to face don’t want me to bring these attributes up. So I consciously made the decision to back off.

@maiki

I’m not sure if that is a useful function, particularly with this group. I mean, you folks know how guilty each of you are.

Mostly true.

Though I think people who are new to Dwarf Fortress might often assume it’s FLOSS on accident because it participates in a genre that is nearly exclusively so. (Terminal based roguelikes).

[judytuna]

@trashHeap

Though I think people who are new to Dwarf Fortress might often assume it’s FLOSS on accident because it participates in a genre that is nearly exclusively so. (Terminal based roguelikes).

i totally thought it was FLOSS on accident, and i played it in… well it was when i was still at eudemonia, so before 2009? i guess i still think of myself as new to dwarf fortress but it’s been TEN YEARS WTF

[maiki]

You know, I’ve always kept my mouth shut when folks talk about Dwarf Fortress. By all accounts, it seems like the most amazing thing, and I would really be into it. I stay apprised of major developments.

But I’ve never played it. I refuse to throw that much attention into something I can’t hack freely. I care fuck all about the developers’ feelings: they are creating an emergent framework and it should be easy for everyone to hack on and distribute. If a project can’t provide that environment, it isn’t safe for what I’m looking for.

[tim]

@maiki

I refuse to throw that much attention into something I can’t hack freely.

I am curious though, where do games like Guild Wars 2 fall in that spectrum then? It seems on the same level of not FLOSS.

[maiki]

In the part of my heart that hurts very much. T_T

Nah, seriously though, I don’t play GW2:

@maiki

I stopped playing GW2 when they got caught installing spyware. I figured they would sort that out and I would be part of a slump in sales for them, but some year or so in the future I would get interested again, and they hadn’t done anything else… but this is done, I am over the story.

There are soooo many options out there, and yeah GW2 is a pretty great and beautiful game, there will be others. And we don’t have to support malware and asshattery!

But I will answer, because it is still valid, and I think GW2 is an exception to MMOs as time sinks: I didn’t have to invest anything in GW2 (or GW) to have fun. I could play as much or as little as I wanted, and I got what I needed. I didn’t grind in GW.

LOTRO: grindy as fuck! Hence I don’t play it. When I do, I just want to run around the virtual Middle-Earth, not really interact with the game, per se. So I can appreciate it for the graphics, and some of the story is interesting, though not as much as GW2 is to me.

First person shooters: I don’t like unlocks and loadouts, though they are silly in TF2, for instance. I prefer Counter-Strike money-per-round or per-match style loadouts. Why? Because I shouldn’t have to grind to play an FPS.

So there are a lot of different criteria. Dwarf Fortress is text mode. It is deep. It gets better the more you put in. Those attributes don’t fit my life style.

[maiki]

@maiki

I prefer Counter-Strike money-per-round or per-match style loadouts.

I think CS:GO uses the newer style system, or something like it. There are unlocks, and I remember trying to get into a game, and not knowing if I had to set my inventory ahead of time or not.

I wish there was a FOSS FPS with similar physics to CS 1.6 (yeah, I like that one). The pacing on the handful of FOSS engines out there are all cranked to 11 on the sci-fi scale.

I suppose if we are gonna shoot each other, it should be with glowing plasma…

[trashHeap]

@maiki

I wish there was a FOSS FPS with similar physics to CS 1.6 (yeah, I like that one). The pacing on the handful of FOSS engines out there are all cranked to 11 on the sci-fi scale.

I don’t follow it, cause that game isn’t my jam, but isn’t there one? Xash3d ?

[trashHeap]

@maiki

But I’ve never played it. I refuse to throw that much attention into something I can’t hack freely. I care fuck all about the developers’ feelings: they are creating an emergent framework and it should be easy for everyone to hack on and distribute.

This thread caused me to look into WHY they keep it proprietary (mostly scared to loose authorial control of their art/craft.) Which is something im sympathetic with. However, I feel like its also a fear that arises from not truly understanding community dynamics and the fact that their are a spectrum of FLOSS licensing/tradmark options which can mitigate that.

I kinda wish whenever I come across that fear I could sit down one on one with the devs and explain some common mitigation strategies for that, over a cup of coffee or something. But C’est la vie.

While anything I create is going to be FLOSS of course; and wherever reasonably possible I try and pick free/libre options. I do invest time in proprietary games myself. I kinda consider it a vice, and I try to balance it out by doing and supporting good elsewhere.

I’ve gone for multi-year stints before not playing any proprietary games, but it usually leaves me feeling a bit like im just punishing myself with idealogical purity while the amount of proprietary code in the universe remains unchanged by my actions.

[maiki]

@trashHeap

I kinda wish whenever I come across that fear I could sit down one on one with the devs and explain some common mitigation strategies for that, over a cup of coffee or something. But C’est la vie.

Yep.

[tim]

@trashHeap

I’ve gone for multi-year stints before not playing any proprietary games, but it usually leaves me feeling a bit like im just punishing myself with idealogical purity while the amount of proprietary code in the universe remains unchanged by my actions.

This stings with the irritation of truth, good sir.

[maiki]

You folks are doing it wrong! You gotta annoy potential developers before they make proprietary warez (or any at all)! For maximum efficiency, target historically marginalized groups!

#stinging-truth

[maiki]

@maiki

You folks are doing it wrong! You gotta annoy potential developers before they make proprietary warez (or any at all)! For maximum efficiency, target historically marginalized groups!

I am quoting myself because I stand by by original post, but wanted to clarify for those driving-by: that is deep sarcasm among friends on the state of things. Even a lot of my friends won’t get how deep and painful that goes, and that’s fine.

I just had this vision of someone coming along and quoting that out of context and holy fuck I’d rather have this one quoted where I emboldened holy fuck three times or more (holy fuck)! Because we have to imagine a better world with everyone.

Holy fuck!

[judytuna]

@maiki

I just had this vision of someone coming along and quoting that out of context and holy fuck I’d rather have this one quoted where I emboldened holy fuck three times or more ( holy fuck )! Because we have to imagine a better world with everyone .

Holy fuck!

i was wondering about the “i delete all my twitter posts” phenomenon and holy fuck you addressed it before i did! radical transparency!